Bruce when Boinc Synergy Had Einstein as POTM (Project OF The Month) in February you did not join us in our effort. I (as myself not representing the team)find it distasteful that you would put your credits to any single team.
You by yourself would be the 19th highest producing team why would you risk alienating all the other teams by putting your resources to just one ?
If they are the department computers i also do not like my tax dollars used to compete with me. If they are your personal computers i apologize for the last and commend you for your personal dedication to the project.
Thank you
Stanley A Bourdon DVM
Augusta WI 54722
Hi Stanley,
First off, let me say that I understand your disappointment. We very nearly made Einstein our target for an AA in February and also in December. Had we targetedt Einstein then, it is highly unlikely that one of our team members would have had the idea and the chutzpah at the same time to invite Bruce to join the assault, and we would probably be kicking ourselves now had we seen another team invite Bruce after we had targeted Einstein!
But let's look at it another way - from the point of view of contribution to the science project at hand, which I assume is what the funding for Dr. Allen's cluster is for.
B@A have an Aussie Assault every 2 months, probably for much the same reason Boinc Synergy have their POTM - as a team building exercise primarily, and as a secondary consideration to give a deserving project a boost, both in terms of getting the science done and in terms of pushing the B@A ranking in that project. In all these aspects, AAs have been extraordinarily successful in the past.
There is usually up to a month of spirited discussion followed by a vote and a runoff before we choose a project for the bi-monthly AA. There are usually a couple of broad camps - those who favour crunching for "old favourite" bigger projects like Seti, Einstein, Rosetta, etc and another camp wanting to make a big impact in newer and smaller projects like ABC, Rieselsieve, Primegrid, etc. Lots of other things come into consideration. Good science, stable servers, engaged project admins etc. are big pluses, while things like rampant cheating, lots of flaming on the message boards, etc. are turn-offs) (our team has a lot of kids as well as adults crunching, and we'd like boinc to be a pleasant and educational experience for them as well as us.)
As I mentioned before, Einstein has been the bridesmaid rather than the bride up to now, and it was headed that way again this time. Lots of people like the project for the reasons above, but a little something was needed to push it over the line. Dr. Allen lending the cluster to the effort for a little while did that. Suddenly we had to ante up to try to match what was on the table. So a couple of other good projects got put in the "later" basket, the March AA was brought forward, and lots of people who normally don't take part in the AAs have swung over to Einstein because for us this is a big thing. Suddenly we had no choice. :-)
I have certainly swung more of my compute power over to Einstein than I would have if it had been a "normal" AA on a strong, established project.
So, the result from the short-term team change for the cluster (which of course makes no difference to the amount of science it produces with tax dollars if indeed that is how it is funded):
Positive:
---------
* brought an extra 100,000 credits/day (estimated based on history) worth of crunching into Einstein for 3 weeks and probably a residual 10,000 long term. That's from B@A alone. Last time in ABC it had a much bigger effect because L'Alliance Francophone took it upon themselves to whip us and added 200,000/day at least of their own. With luck, AMD users and AF will take up the challenge and cause the knock-on effect this time.
* Inspired a bunch of people to get to know more about Einstein. (many of us actually read the science pages of the projects targeted in AAs.
Potentially Negative
--------------------
* Some people may not like this and some crunch power might be lost to the project.
To the negative side, let me say that this is the first time the cluster has been "geared" to push some team to extra effort. It would be a shame if it is the last. There is the potential that it could be used to create a secondary crunch effect perhaps equal to its awesome intrinsic power.
To the Boinc Synergy team, I can only say that you have created an awesome crunching force that is contributing to our future and our children's future. I personally salute you. Can I suggest that you make Einstein POTM again sometime soon? Then the outcome is good for us, you and the Einstein project!
Oh - and in BOINC I don't think you can say "competing against". There is no first prize other than satisfaction for a job well done, some more knowledge and a propensity to spend too much time looking at stats sites. (And for some of us, sacrifice of money, time, sleep, exam results and in some cases even conjugal privileges but that's another story :-). I see it more as "competing with" because we are crunching side by side.
Live long and crunch. One day when B@A is all growed up we'll challenge you to a race.
Bruce when Boinc Synergy Had Einstein as POTM (Project OF The Month) in February you did not join us in our effort. I (as myself not representing the team)find it distasteful that you would put your credits to any single team.
You by yourself would be the 19th highest producing team why would you risk alienating all the other teams by putting your resources to just one ?
If they are the department computers i also do not like my tax dollars used to compete with me. If they are your personal computers i apologize for the last and commend you for your personal dedication to the project.
Thank you
Stanley A Bourdon DVM
Augusta WI 54722
Hi Stanley,
I'm sorry you are disappointed -- but if I had been directly asked to join some other effort I probably would also have responded positively. Anyway here is what I intend to do in the future. I will write a script that once per week joins me and all of my computers (primarily the computing cluster of my UWM research group) to a randomly selected active team.
Anyway here is what I intend to do in the future. I will write a script that once per week joins me and all of my computers (primarily the computing cluster of my UWM research group) to a randomly selected active team.
If anyone objects to this please explain why.
That sounds fair enough, just hope your own team doesn't slip to much. Maybe it could be seeded every few weeks or so?
I'm sorry you are disappointed -- but if I had been directly asked to join some other effort I probably would also have responded positively. Anyway here is what I intend to do in the future. I will write a script that once per week joins me and all of my computers (primarily the computing cluster of my UWM research group) to a randomly selected active team.
If anyone objects to this please explain why.
Cheers,
Bruce
Sounds like a cool idea, except perhaps your own team. :-) Should average out over time, but will create great interest I would think. Perhaps the randomness could be influenced (once per team!) when teams have a special effort on Einstein....
I'm sorry you are disappointed -- but if I had been directly asked to join some other effort I probably would also have responded positively.
I know you were contacted by the team (Boinc Synergy)*. Although i do not know the exact nature of the message? .
Quote:
Anyway here is what I intend to do in the future. I will write a script that once per week joins me and all of my computers (primarily the computing cluster of my UWM research group) to a randomly selected active team.
If anyone objects to this please explain why.
Cheers,
Bruce
Several thoughts on this
1) you may end up randomly choosing a team that does not want the contribution
on boinc synergy boards we had a discussion about this about a specific small team. Concerns that you would become top cruncher and the team owner would never able to catch up, would mess up the ranking of competing team members.
2) with your current scheme you will only contribute to 0.007768150582611293695847027188527% of teams If you switch every day you only affect 0.054526441589483119211233940842546% of teams or you could give each team 1.3086345981475948610696145802211 hours
3) It feels wrong (this is probably the state and federal taxpayer in me)
thank you
Stanley A Bourdon DVM
Augusta WI 54722
*edti for clarity
RE: Bruce when Boinc
)
Hi Stanley,
First off, let me say that I understand your disappointment. We very nearly made Einstein our target for an AA in February and also in December. Had we targetedt Einstein then, it is highly unlikely that one of our team members would have had the idea and the chutzpah at the same time to invite Bruce to join the assault, and we would probably be kicking ourselves now had we seen another team invite Bruce after we had targeted Einstein!
But let's look at it another way - from the point of view of contribution to the science project at hand, which I assume is what the funding for Dr. Allen's cluster is for.
B@A have an Aussie Assault every 2 months, probably for much the same reason Boinc Synergy have their POTM - as a team building exercise primarily, and as a secondary consideration to give a deserving project a boost, both in terms of getting the science done and in terms of pushing the B@A ranking in that project. In all these aspects, AAs have been extraordinarily successful in the past.
There is usually up to a month of spirited discussion followed by a vote and a runoff before we choose a project for the bi-monthly AA. There are usually a couple of broad camps - those who favour crunching for "old favourite" bigger projects like Seti, Einstein, Rosetta, etc and another camp wanting to make a big impact in newer and smaller projects like ABC, Rieselsieve, Primegrid, etc. Lots of other things come into consideration. Good science, stable servers, engaged project admins etc. are big pluses, while things like rampant cheating, lots of flaming on the message boards, etc. are turn-offs) (our team has a lot of kids as well as adults crunching, and we'd like boinc to be a pleasant and educational experience for them as well as us.)
As I mentioned before, Einstein has been the bridesmaid rather than the bride up to now, and it was headed that way again this time. Lots of people like the project for the reasons above, but a little something was needed to push it over the line. Dr. Allen lending the cluster to the effort for a little while did that. Suddenly we had to ante up to try to match what was on the table. So a couple of other good projects got put in the "later" basket, the March AA was brought forward, and lots of people who normally don't take part in the AAs have swung over to Einstein because for us this is a big thing. Suddenly we had no choice. :-)
I have certainly swung more of my compute power over to Einstein than I would have if it had been a "normal" AA on a strong, established project.
So, the result from the short-term team change for the cluster (which of course makes no difference to the amount of science it produces with tax dollars if indeed that is how it is funded):
Positive:
---------
* brought an extra 100,000 credits/day (estimated based on history) worth of crunching into Einstein for 3 weeks and probably a residual 10,000 long term. That's from B@A alone. Last time in ABC it had a much bigger effect because L'Alliance Francophone took it upon themselves to whip us and added 200,000/day at least of their own. With luck, AMD users and AF will take up the challenge and cause the knock-on effect this time.
* Inspired a bunch of people to get to know more about Einstein. (many of us actually read the science pages of the projects targeted in AAs.
Potentially Negative
--------------------
* Some people may not like this and some crunch power might be lost to the project.
To the negative side, let me say that this is the first time the cluster has been "geared" to push some team to extra effort. It would be a shame if it is the last. There is the potential that it could be used to create a secondary crunch effect perhaps equal to its awesome intrinsic power.
To the Boinc Synergy team, I can only say that you have created an awesome crunching force that is contributing to our future and our children's future. I personally salute you. Can I suggest that you make Einstein POTM again sometime soon? Then the outcome is good for us, you and the Einstein project!
Oh - and in BOINC I don't think you can say "competing against". There is no first prize other than satisfaction for a job well done, some more knowledge and a propensity to spend too much time looking at stats sites. (And for some of us, sacrifice of money, time, sleep, exam results and in some cases even conjugal privileges but that's another story :-). I see it more as "competing with" because we are crunching side by side.
Live long and crunch. One day when B@A is all growed up we'll challenge you to a race.
--Mark
--miw
RE: RE: OK, I'm in, at
)
Hi Stanley,
I'm sorry you are disappointed -- but if I had been directly asked to join some other effort I probably would also have responded positively. Anyway here is what I intend to do in the future. I will write a script that once per week joins me and all of my computers (primarily the computing cluster of my UWM research group) to a randomly selected active team.
If anyone objects to this please explain why.
Cheers,
Bruce
Director, Einstein@Home
Interesting and funny idea,
)
Interesting and funny idea, but it will create a chaos in competition of teams...
RE: Anyway here is what I
)
That sounds fair enough, just hope your own team doesn't slip to much. Maybe it could be seeded every few weeks or so?
Join the #1 Aussie Alliance on Einstein
I'm a B.S. member myself, but
)
I'm a B.S. member myself, but I can't say I agree with Stanley. Afterall, we didn't ask Bruce to join us.
And Bruce, don't move all your computers from team to team, save some for your own team :-)
Click my stat image to go to the BOINC Synergy Team site!
RE: Hi Stanley, I'm sorry
)
Sounds like a cool idea, except perhaps your own team. :-) Should average out over time, but will create great interest I would think. Perhaps the randomness could be influenced (once per team!) when teams have a special effort on Einstein....
--miw
RE: Hi Stanley, I'm
)
I know you were contacted by the team (Boinc Synergy)*. Although i do not know the exact nature of the message? .
Several thoughts on this
1) you may end up randomly choosing a team that does not want the contribution
on boinc synergy boards we had a discussion about this about a specific small team. Concerns that you would become top cruncher and the team owner would never able to catch up, would mess up the ranking of competing team members.
2) with your current scheme you will only contribute to 0.007768150582611293695847027188527% of teams If you switch every day you only affect 0.054526441589483119211233940842546% of teams or you could give each team 1.3086345981475948610696145802211 hours
3) It feels wrong (this is probably the state and federal taxpayer in me)
thank you
Stanley A Bourdon DVM
Augusta WI 54722
*edti for clarity
Stanley
Boinc Wikipedia - the FAQ in active change
RE: I know you were
)
Stanley, if I may, the contact by our team was made by me with the first post in this thread.
I'm in no position to comment on the rest of your post.
Join the #1 Aussie Alliance on Einstein
RE: RE: I know you were
)
hi
I was refering to contact by boinc synergy
thank you
Stanley
Boinc Wikipedia - the FAQ in active change
RE: hi I was referring to
)
Stanley, I was still editing the post, sorry.
Join the #1 Aussie Alliance on Einstein