I just recently saw "US Marshalls" for the first time. Granted that the road they landed on was not an Interstate and certainly not designed as a runway, but a lot of Interstates have light poles along them and the movie illustrated pretty well what the problem is with that. (Not that I thought that crash landing was all that realistic.)
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
Alas I can't find a specific reference to point to but I am fairly sure that Winston Churchill came up with the original idea for landing warplanes on roads in times of combat. Whether it went beyond that I don't know eg. designing @ building roads for dual use, but the idea was certainly about in WWII. He had a ton of very unconventional concepts - he literally bubbled with them eg. for aircraft carriers made of ice and indeed when advising Icelanders to prepare for invasion he suggested just converting existing roads to runways for US usage ( they had no substantial infrastructure altering capability until the US ground troops turned up ). Some of the easier ideas were enacted like camouflage to make an airfield look like it had been repaired from bomb damage when it wasn't, or the converse of looking like it had been damaged when it was fine. Anyway a neat irony is that Winston Churchill Avenue in Gibraltar intersects their airport runway ( now disused ).
FWIW I recall it being in Churchill's memoirs : he mentioned the road=runway idea while chatting to the Russians.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Ha Ha !
Some pretty old cars in that photo
plus pretty old Helo !
Bill
good eye. circa 1951. last time I was there was around ' 75. If you where "there" at 1500 you had a long slow ride out of LA into the San Fernando valley. Pretty sure its not better today.
Ha Ha !
Some pretty old cars in that photo
plus pretty old Helo !
Bill
good eye. circa 1951. last time I was there was around ' 75. If you where "there" at 1500 you had a long slow ride out of LA into the San Fernando valley. Pretty sure its not better today.
but I am fairly sure that Winston Churchill came up with the original idea for landing warplanes on roads in times of combat.
Yes he did but at the time it was all about Spitfires and Hurricanes if places like Biggin Hill or Tangmere had been bombed. Modern fighter aircraft fully loaded with missiles, bombs, and fuel weigh many more times the weight. And forget C130's!
But as I said, specially reinforced Motorway sections in appropriate areas, could accept simple landing and take off, from fighters in a wartime situation. But in the 21C that is now virtually obsolete, we wouldn't use conventional airfields any more. The harriers have come and gone that could land and take off in a field, and the new F35B's will be carrier based.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
The whole idea was that in time of war, the designated sections of motorway would be cordoned off by the police for military use only.
During 9/11 in Washington DC I sat on top of a hi-rise building, in Alexandria, and watched the Pentagon burn, there are HOV/HOT switchable lanes going into and out of DC from Northern Virginia and they were supposedly closed off so all the police cars etc from Virginia could get up to the Pentagon quicker. But it seems some of the gates didn't get closed before some of the vehicles, mostly big Chevy Suburbans, were flying up the lanes towards DC and encountered some South bound regular cars just trying to leave town. It was a mess for awhile but it eventually got straightened out. Most the vehicles were Military vehicles headed towards the Pentagon, some Police cars took the lanes also though. There is an exit for the Pentagon just after the lanes end, merging back into the regular lanes, just outside Washington DC.
HOV means high occupancy vehicles, while HOT means high occupancy toll vehicles, the difference is that when it was HOV only cars with 3 or more people were normally allowed in the lanes. But now that the lanes are HOT lanes anyone can use them, but cars with less than 3 people must pay on a sliding scale based on how used the lanes are, the fuller they are the more you pay.
but I am fairly sure that Winston Churchill came up with the original idea for landing warplanes on roads in times of combat.
Yes he did but at the time it was all about Spitfires and Hurricanes if places like Biggin Hill or Tangmere had been bombed. Modern fighter aircraft fully loaded with missiles, bombs, and fuel weigh many more times the weight. And forget C130's!
But as I said, specially reinforced Motorway sections in appropriate areas, could accept simple landing and take off, from fighters in a wartime situation. But in the 21C that is now virtually obsolete, we wouldn't use conventional airfields any more. The harriers have come and gone that could land and take off in a field, and the new F35B's will be carrier based.
I am quite sure that this approach to alternative runways has been abandoned. With today's modern warfare I don't envision many aircraft returning. With all the high tech aircraft we have, we have yet to an see an actual "dog" fight between the advanced powers. It might be a real eye opener. And a "dog" fight today begins with engaging your enemy over the horizon.
On the subject of carriers: A recent article I read stated that the US Navy has almost obsoleted the need for carriers. Before, the aircraft on those carriers had a range of 1000+ miles. That meant they could penetrate coastal defenses provide close air support etc. Today the new aircraft have a greatly reduced range (refueling not an option). Couple this with coastal air defenses employing long range cruise missiles and the carriers must now remain further out to sea further limiting the range and therefore the effectiveness of those planes.
I would much prefer a drinking contest: Last man/woman standing - his/her side wins.
Ha Ha ! Some pretty old cars
Ha Ha !
Some pretty old cars in that photo
plus pretty old Helo !
@Richard Neat! an anti Grav runway floating above London !
Bill
RE: Doesn't some people
I just recently saw "US Marshalls" for the first time. Granted that the road they landed on was not an Interstate and certainly not designed as a runway, but a lot of Interstates have light poles along them and the movie illustrated pretty well what the problem is with that. (Not that I thought that crash landing was all that realistic.)
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
The whole idea was that in
The whole idea was that in time of war, the designated sections of motorway would be cordoned off by the police for military use only.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
Alas I can't find a specific
Alas I can't find a specific reference to point to but I am fairly sure that Winston Churchill came up with the original idea for landing warplanes on roads in times of combat. Whether it went beyond that I don't know eg. designing @ building roads for dual use, but the idea was certainly about in WWII. He had a ton of very unconventional concepts - he literally bubbled with them eg. for aircraft carriers made of ice and indeed when advising Icelanders to prepare for invasion he suggested just converting existing roads to runways for US usage ( they had no substantial infrastructure altering capability until the US ground troops turned up ). Some of the easier ideas were enacted like camouflage to make an airfield look like it had been repaired from bomb damage when it wasn't, or the converse of looking like it had been damaged when it was fine. Anyway a neat irony is that Winston Churchill Avenue in Gibraltar intersects their airport runway ( now disused ).
FWIW I recall it being in Churchill's memoirs : he mentioned the road=runway idea while chatting to the Russians.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: Ha Ha ! Some pretty old
good eye. circa 1951. last time I was there was around ' 75. If you where "there" at 1500 you had a long slow ride out of LA into the San Fernando valley. Pretty sure its not better today.
RE: RE: Ha Ha ! Some
Not even at midnight ...
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0622556,-118.2470272,17z/data=!5m1!1e1
RE: but I am fairly sure
Yes he did but at the time it was all about Spitfires and Hurricanes if places like Biggin Hill or Tangmere had been bombed. Modern fighter aircraft fully loaded with missiles, bombs, and fuel weigh many more times the weight. And forget C130's!
But as I said, specially reinforced Motorway sections in appropriate areas, could accept simple landing and take off, from fighters in a wartime situation. But in the 21C that is now virtually obsolete, we wouldn't use conventional airfields any more. The harriers have come and gone that could land and take off in a field, and the new F35B's will be carrier based.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
RE: The whole idea was that
During 9/11 in Washington DC I sat on top of a hi-rise building, in Alexandria, and watched the Pentagon burn, there are HOV/HOT switchable lanes going into and out of DC from Northern Virginia and they were supposedly closed off so all the police cars etc from Virginia could get up to the Pentagon quicker. But it seems some of the gates didn't get closed before some of the vehicles, mostly big Chevy Suburbans, were flying up the lanes towards DC and encountered some South bound regular cars just trying to leave town. It was a mess for awhile but it eventually got straightened out. Most the vehicles were Military vehicles headed towards the Pentagon, some Police cars took the lanes also though. There is an exit for the Pentagon just after the lanes end, merging back into the regular lanes, just outside Washington DC.
HOV means high occupancy vehicles, while HOT means high occupancy toll vehicles, the difference is that when it was HOV only cars with 3 or more people were normally allowed in the lanes. But now that the lanes are HOT lanes anyone can use them, but cars with less than 3 people must pay on a sliding scale based on how used the lanes are, the fuller they are the more you pay.
RE: RE: but I am fairly
I am quite sure that this approach to alternative runways has been abandoned. With today's modern warfare I don't envision many aircraft returning. With all the high tech aircraft we have, we have yet to an see an actual "dog" fight between the advanced powers. It might be a real eye opener. And a "dog" fight today begins with engaging your enemy over the horizon.
On the subject of carriers: A recent article I read stated that the US Navy has almost obsoleted the need for carriers. Before, the aircraft on those carriers had a range of 1000+ miles. That meant they could penetrate coastal defenses provide close air support etc. Today the new aircraft have a greatly reduced range (refueling not an option). Couple this with coastal air defenses employing long range cruise missiles and the carriers must now remain further out to sea further limiting the range and therefore the effectiveness of those planes.
I would much prefer a drinking contest: Last man/woman standing - his/her side wins.
RE: I would much prefer a
Aussies would rule the World !
(I have a buddy here who is a former Aussie SAS trooper
so I know this to be a fact : )
Bill