Toby used to chug along the line outside my house. The little tram would chug and chug up and down the line, giving the Rt Rev. Aurdrey the ideas he used.
Reservists are called 'weekend warriors' but in a kindly fashion
That's what we call them in America too, mostly in a kindly fashion too.
Quote:
( edit ) Sad note : as an epidemic, Ebola currently looks to be the perfect storm otherwise unsurpassed in historical times. One single saving grace is that it is not a respiratory spread, but all other indicators are near ideal for monumental tragedy. It's gone exponential and depending on the relevant factor ( bearing in mind that currently probably 3 per 4 cases have not been reported ) b/w 20,000 to 200,000 will die by this Xmas. I kid you not. :-(
Cheers, Mike.
I think these kinds of outbreaks will continue as the World continues to be easier to access for the average person, ie the World is getting smaller so the outbreaks will get bigger and harder to manage. As long as you can hop on a plane and be half the World away in 12 hours, lots of diseases will be spreading like wildfire, I think. Add in the phase where a person is contagious but not showing any symptoms yet and say hello to ALOT of currently 'third World' diseases for the rest of us. With the lack of 'professional' thinking by the on the ground people, ie the locals thinking 'only witch doctors can cure Ebola', and the World is a sneeze away from another Spanish Flu type outbreak.
Good grief even Diplomats get on planes, unscreened private planes of course, and go out in public to meet and greet and generally spread the 'good' word about their Country, it's a wonder alot more diseases haven't made the rounds yet!! People tend to think of 'borders' as sacrosanct things, but if we compare them to the American States, Australian 'counties and hundreds' or even European Countries no longer requiring passports, it's no wonder the disease is spreading as the people think the 'witch doctors' here or there can 'cure' them, whereas all the CDC, and others, wants to do is isolate them with other sick people.
Alot of the World gets the flu vaccine every year, yet over THIRTY THOUSAND AMERICANS DIE OF THE FLU EVERY YEAR!!! I am pretty sure some number of people die in EVERY Country from the flu every year, as they refuse to get vaccinated because they don't want to 'get sick' or for whatever reason. I would MUCH rather get slightly sick, then be DEAD!!
Alot of the World gets the flu vaccine every year, yet over THIRTY THOUSAND AMERICANS DIE OF THE FLU EVERY YEAR!!! I am pretty sure some number of people die in EVERY Country from the flu every year, as they refuse to get vaccinated because they don't want to 'get sick' or for whatever reason. I would MUCH rather get slightly sick, then be DEAD!!
On a more positive note...I am now WINNING!!!
For many years, I refused to get a flu shot because one year I got it and promptly got full-blown flu. I finally let my doctor talk me into it again a few years ago and I've been okay.
IT-Green, are you talking about Thomas? I started volunteering at a railway museum this year. We have two weekends of Day Out With Thomas. I signed up to work the regular steam coach train (not the Thomas train). Never again! Next year, I will run a streetcar (which I'm ready to qualify on) or be switchtender, but that's it. And it didn't help that it's always in the middle of August when it's incredibly hot and humid.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
For many years, I refused to get a flu shot because one year I got it and promptly got full-blown flu. I finally let my doctor talk me into it again a few years ago and I've been okay.
Ah. Alot of the trouble with the flu vaccines have been the sales pitches. That is, some perspective is needed. Some moderating observations if I may :
- remember that the manufacturer wants units shifted, so each year is always going to be expected to be the worst ever! That has been stated for each of the 29 years I've been practising. Now every week I may expect to win the Lotto, and so that hopeful optimism is always true, but the actual win is not.
- hence overseas there have always been so-and-so many people slain by the flu. This comment prior to winter primes the fears - it's coming, are you prepared? Which is only partly correct. Even though some have suffered from influenza in their last hours, if a causative factor in their decline it is nearly always in the presence of very substantial co-morbidities eg. advanced age ( 90+ ), illnesses that sap immune system vigour eg. diabetes, and chronic respiratory complaints to name but a few. Influenza is rarely the sole cause, so that otherwise young and fit people have almost nothing to fear ( c/w much larger daily risks of existence ).
- it's the ( secondary ) bacterial pneumonia as the follow on after the weakening of the respiratory linings that harkens the grim reaper from yonder.
- if you are in a caring role for those at risk then yes you should consider the 'herd effect' of you not being a vector. Hence I have it yearly and really it is not for my own sake, even though I may incidentally benefit.
- the vaccine is a 'false attack' and thus trains the immune system to recognise a particular variety and store that experience away for later ( what is formed is a monoclonal line of cells 'tuned' for that agent ). Thus if/when you meet the actual virus your immune response will be immediate, and not some ~ three days later in the de-novo/unimmunised instance. As with all infections it is a race b/w the germs establishment and progression within you vs your immune response to kick it's butt.
- typically full protection takes a number of weeks to establish after a given vaccination. Thus if you get a flu shot at the height of the season you may get the flu first before effective vaccine response. One may be led to blame the shot ie. post hoc ergo propter hoc.
- the younger you are the better your immune system is, thus your immune system stimulation from the vaccine may approach that expected from the illness itself. While the symptoms may compare the vaccine effects do not carry the morbidity of the viral infection itself.
- vaccine production almost always involves ( chicken ) eggs somewhere, so any trace protein from those may be present in a tiny amount in the product. If you have an egg allergy problem then consider this.
- it's the outer viral coat that the immune system responds to. Fortunately the flu has a limited number of permutations available. Admittedly that's several hundred permutations of sub-unit combinations, but still fewer than a Rubik's cube. It is possible with prolonged/recurrent yearly immunisation to get partial immunity for combinations not yet encountered.
- year to year there is typically a 'drift' in the latest and greatest viral coats ie. this year's is approximated by last year's. About once or twice per decade there is a 'jump' ie. no resemblance to last year's.
- the vaccine is trivalent ie. targeting the three most prevalent varieties. Vaccine production does take at least four months after specification and so there may be movement in the wild viral characteristics during that phase. So this April's flu-shot is based on last November's information.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
For many years, I refused to get a flu shot because one year I got it and promptly got full-blown flu. I finally let my doctor talk me into it again a few years ago and I've been okay.
Ah. Alot of the trouble with the flu vaccines have been the sales pitches. That is, some perspective is needed. Some moderating observations if I may :
- remember that the manufacturer wants units shifted, so each year is always going to be expected to be the worst ever! That has been stated for each of the 29 years I've been practising. Now every week I may expect to win the Lotto, and so that hopeful optimism is always true, but the actual win is not.
- hence overseas there have always been so-and-so many people slain by the flu. This comment prior to winter primes the fears - it's coming, are you prepared? Which is only partly correct. Even though some have suffered from influenza in their last hours, if a causative factor in their decline it is nearly always in the presence of very substantial co-morbidities eg. advanced age ( 90+ ), illnesses that sap immune system vigour eg. diabetes, and chronic respiratory complaints to name but a few. Influenza is rarely the sole cause, so that otherwise young and fit people have almost nothing to fear ( c/w much larger daily risks of existence ).
- it's the ( secondary ) bacterial pneumonia as the follow on after the weakening of the respiratory linings that harkens the grim reaper from yonder.
- if you are in a caring role for those at risk then yes you should consider the 'herd effect' of you not being a vector. Hence I have it yearly and really it is not for my own sake, even though I may incidentally benefit.
- the vaccine is a 'false attack' and thus trains the immune system to recognise a particular variety and store that experience away for later ( what is formed is a monoclonal line of cells 'tuned' for that agent ). Thus if/when you meet the actual virus your immune response will be immediate, and not some ~ three days later in the de-novo/unimmunised instance. As with all infections it is a race b/w the germs establishment and progression within you vs your immune response to kick it's butt.
- typically full protection takes a number of weeks to establish after a given vaccination. Thus if you get a flu shot at the height of the season you may get the flu first before effective vaccine response. One may be led to blame the shot ie. post hoc ergo propter hoc.
- the younger you are the better your immune system is, thus your immune system stimulation from the vaccine may approach that expected from the illness itself. While the symptoms may compare the vaccine effects do not carry the morbidity of the viral infection itself.
- vaccine production almost always involves ( chicken ) eggs somewhere, so any trace protein from those may be present in a tiny amount in the product. If you have an egg allergy problem then consider this.
- it's the outer viral coat that the immune system responds to. Fortunately the flu has a limited number of permutations available. Admittedly that's several hundred permutations of sub-unit combinations, but still fewer than a Rubik's cube. It is possible with prolonged/recurrent yearly immunisation to get partial immunity for combinations not yet encountered.
- year to year there is typically a 'drift' in the latest and greatest viral coats ie. this year's is approximated by last year's. About once or twice per decade there is a 'jump' ie. no resemblance to last year's.
- the vaccine is trivalent ie. targeting the three most prevalent varieties. Vaccine production does take at least four months after specification and so there may be movement in the wild viral characteristics during that phase. So this April's flu-shot is based on last November's information.
Cheers, Mike.
Yes you stated that very well, the key to the flu shot is that it helps keep one from getting that last little thing that can kill you, it is not usually one thing that kills you, it is the combination of everything, then you add in one last thing, ie the flu, and poof you are outa here. That is why, in the US anyway, they say anyone over 50 and children should get it, not necessarily the middle group of normally healthy people. The over 50 folks probably already have some long term niggly health issues, and the kids just don't have the immune system in full swing yet. And people that do get the flu from the vaccine generally only get a small case of it, as opposed to the full blown killing case of it. Most of us just feel 'funky' for a day or so then we are right back to normal, with our body making antibodies like there is no tomorrow. I worked for a Fire Department for 24 years so have been getting mandatory flu shots for a LONG time, since I retired I still get them as part of my regular Fall/Winter doctors visit. In the FD if someone refused to get the fly shot, and some did, they were put on desk duty on day shifts until either the flu season was over or they got it. Going from shift work to 5 days a week of desk work is PAINFUL, and most got it pretty quickly after starting their shift. Shift work for me was 24 hours shifts, ie Monday, Wednesday and Friday this week then Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday off, then starting over next Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. The inbetween shift days were off days too, so we worked 3 days out of 9 but averaged 56 hours per week, with sleeping allowed after 8pm unless the bells went off. We worked 8am one morning until 8am the next morning, with most guys changing at about 7am so they could get to their part-time jobs on their off days.
That is why, in the US anyway, they say anyone over 50 and children should get it, not necessarily the middle group of normally healthy people.
Um, this thought is a problem, as the "normally healthy people" are a large part of the herd that Mike Hewson alluded to, and the shots are much more effective at increasing immunity in the middle group than in the aged.
Herd immunity is not so complicated at it may sound. Think about how we fight fire--all that is necessary for a fire to die out instead of growing is for the density of flammable material to be low enough. Similarly, if the conditions of physical exposure (for potential transmission) and relatively immunity (governing how likely a potential transmission is to turn into an actual new case) set the growth rate below unity, a disease dies down in a particular setting, rather than increasing.
All of us who are part of the herd do the larger population a favor by making our personal corner a bit more unfavorable to disease transmission. This includes basic hygiene (yes, handwashing matters for more diseases than you might think), flocking behavior (mass public gatherings have been a significant transmission path in more than one disease) and vaccination.
Unless you have an egg allergy, I think the moral thing to do is to get the flu shot, early in the season, every year. If not for yourself, then for others.
For many years, I refused to get a flu shot because one year I got it and promptly got full-blown flu. I finally let my doctor talk me into it again a few years ago and I've been okay.
Ah. Alot of the trouble with the flu vaccines have been the sales pitches. That is, some perspective is needed. Some moderating observations if I may :
- if you are in a caring role for those at risk then yes you should consider the 'herd effect' of you not being a vector. Hence I have it yearly and really it is not for my own sake, even though I may incidentally benefit.
I was caring for my terminal mother when I agreed to start getting shots again. And I work in a school, so I have a much greater risk of exposure than the average person.
Quote:
- typically full protection takes a number of weeks to establish after a given vaccination. Thus if you get a flu shot at the height of the season you may get the flu first before effective vaccine response. One may be led to blame the shot ie. post hoc ergo propter hoc.
I rather suspect that's what happened to me those many years ago.
My but this thread has taken a serious turn.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
Toby used to chug along the
Toby used to chug along the line outside my house. The little tram would chug and chug up and down the line, giving the Rt Rev. Aurdrey the ideas he used.
RE: Reservists are called
That's what we call them in America too, mostly in a kindly fashion too.
I think these kinds of outbreaks will continue as the World continues to be easier to access for the average person, ie the World is getting smaller so the outbreaks will get bigger and harder to manage. As long as you can hop on a plane and be half the World away in 12 hours, lots of diseases will be spreading like wildfire, I think. Add in the phase where a person is contagious but not showing any symptoms yet and say hello to ALOT of currently 'third World' diseases for the rest of us. With the lack of 'professional' thinking by the on the ground people, ie the locals thinking 'only witch doctors can cure Ebola', and the World is a sneeze away from another Spanish Flu type outbreak.
Good grief even Diplomats get on planes, unscreened private planes of course, and go out in public to meet and greet and generally spread the 'good' word about their Country, it's a wonder alot more diseases haven't made the rounds yet!! People tend to think of 'borders' as sacrosanct things, but if we compare them to the American States, Australian 'counties and hundreds' or even European Countries no longer requiring passports, it's no wonder the disease is spreading as the people think the 'witch doctors' here or there can 'cure' them, whereas all the CDC, and others, wants to do is isolate them with other sick people.
Alot of the World gets the flu vaccine every year, yet over THIRTY THOUSAND AMERICANS DIE OF THE FLU EVERY YEAR!!! I am pretty sure some number of people die in EVERY Country from the flu every year, as they refuse to get vaccinated because they don't want to 'get sick' or for whatever reason. I would MUCH rather get slightly sick, then be DEAD!!
On a more positive note...I am now WINNING!!!
RE: Alot of the World gets
For many years, I refused to get a flu shot because one year I got it and promptly got full-blown flu. I finally let my doctor talk me into it again a few years ago and I've been okay.
IT-Green, are you talking about Thomas? I started volunteering at a railway museum this year. We have two weekends of Day Out With Thomas. I signed up to work the regular steam coach train (not the Thomas train). Never again! Next year, I will run a streetcar (which I'm ready to qualify on) or be switchtender, but that's it. And it didn't help that it's always in the middle of August when it's incredibly hot and humid.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
Good afternoon everyone. :-)
Good afternoon everyone. :-)
TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join SETI Refugees
RE: For many years, I
Ah. Alot of the trouble with the flu vaccines have been the sales pitches. That is, some perspective is needed. Some moderating observations if I may :
- remember that the manufacturer wants units shifted, so each year is always going to be expected to be the worst ever! That has been stated for each of the 29 years I've been practising. Now every week I may expect to win the Lotto, and so that hopeful optimism is always true, but the actual win is not.
- hence overseas there have always been so-and-so many people slain by the flu. This comment prior to winter primes the fears - it's coming, are you prepared? Which is only partly correct. Even though some have suffered from influenza in their last hours, if a causative factor in their decline it is nearly always in the presence of very substantial co-morbidities eg. advanced age ( 90+ ), illnesses that sap immune system vigour eg. diabetes, and chronic respiratory complaints to name but a few. Influenza is rarely the sole cause, so that otherwise young and fit people have almost nothing to fear ( c/w much larger daily risks of existence ).
- it's the ( secondary ) bacterial pneumonia as the follow on after the weakening of the respiratory linings that harkens the grim reaper from yonder.
- if you are in a caring role for those at risk then yes you should consider the 'herd effect' of you not being a vector. Hence I have it yearly and really it is not for my own sake, even though I may incidentally benefit.
- the vaccine is a 'false attack' and thus trains the immune system to recognise a particular variety and store that experience away for later ( what is formed is a monoclonal line of cells 'tuned' for that agent ). Thus if/when you meet the actual virus your immune response will be immediate, and not some ~ three days later in the de-novo/unimmunised instance. As with all infections it is a race b/w the germs establishment and progression within you vs your immune response to kick it's butt.
- typically full protection takes a number of weeks to establish after a given vaccination. Thus if you get a flu shot at the height of the season you may get the flu first before effective vaccine response. One may be led to blame the shot ie. post hoc ergo propter hoc.
- the younger you are the better your immune system is, thus your immune system stimulation from the vaccine may approach that expected from the illness itself. While the symptoms may compare the vaccine effects do not carry the morbidity of the viral infection itself.
- vaccine production almost always involves ( chicken ) eggs somewhere, so any trace protein from those may be present in a tiny amount in the product. If you have an egg allergy problem then consider this.
- it's the outer viral coat that the immune system responds to. Fortunately the flu has a limited number of permutations available. Admittedly that's several hundred permutations of sub-unit combinations, but still fewer than a Rubik's cube. It is possible with prolonged/recurrent yearly immunisation to get partial immunity for combinations not yet encountered.
- year to year there is typically a 'drift' in the latest and greatest viral coats ie. this year's is approximated by last year's. About once or twice per decade there is a 'jump' ie. no resemblance to last year's.
- the vaccine is trivalent ie. targeting the three most prevalent varieties. Vaccine production does take at least four months after specification and so there may be movement in the wild viral characteristics during that phase. So this April's flu-shot is based on last November's information.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: RE: For many years, I
Yes you stated that very well, the key to the flu shot is that it helps keep one from getting that last little thing that can kill you, it is not usually one thing that kills you, it is the combination of everything, then you add in one last thing, ie the flu, and poof you are outa here. That is why, in the US anyway, they say anyone over 50 and children should get it, not necessarily the middle group of normally healthy people. The over 50 folks probably already have some long term niggly health issues, and the kids just don't have the immune system in full swing yet. And people that do get the flu from the vaccine generally only get a small case of it, as opposed to the full blown killing case of it. Most of us just feel 'funky' for a day or so then we are right back to normal, with our body making antibodies like there is no tomorrow. I worked for a Fire Department for 24 years so have been getting mandatory flu shots for a LONG time, since I retired I still get them as part of my regular Fall/Winter doctors visit. In the FD if someone refused to get the fly shot, and some did, they were put on desk duty on day shifts until either the flu season was over or they got it. Going from shift work to 5 days a week of desk work is PAINFUL, and most got it pretty quickly after starting their shift. Shift work for me was 24 hours shifts, ie Monday, Wednesday and Friday this week then Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday off, then starting over next Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. The inbetween shift days were off days too, so we worked 3 days out of 9 but averaged 56 hours per week, with sleeping allowed after 8pm unless the bells went off. We worked 8am one morning until 8am the next morning, with most guys changing at about 7am so they could get to their part-time jobs on their off days.
RE: That is why, in the US
Um, this thought is a problem, as the "normally healthy people" are a large part of the herd that Mike Hewson alluded to, and the shots are much more effective at increasing immunity in the middle group than in the aged.
Herd immunity is not so complicated at it may sound. Think about how we fight fire--all that is necessary for a fire to die out instead of growing is for the density of flammable material to be low enough. Similarly, if the conditions of physical exposure (for potential transmission) and relatively immunity (governing how likely a potential transmission is to turn into an actual new case) set the growth rate below unity, a disease dies down in a particular setting, rather than increasing.
All of us who are part of the herd do the larger population a favor by making our personal corner a bit more unfavorable to disease transmission. This includes basic hygiene (yes, handwashing matters for more diseases than you might think), flocking behavior (mass public gatherings have been a significant transmission path in more than one disease) and vaccination.
Unless you have an egg allergy, I think the moral thing to do is to get the flu shot, early in the season, every year. If not for yourself, then for others.
RE: RE: For many years, I
I was caring for my terminal mother when I agreed to start getting shots again. And I work in a school, so I have a much greater risk of exposure than the average person.
I rather suspect that's what happened to me those many years ago.
My but this thread has taken a serious turn.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
Those with respiratory
Those with respiratory ailments are also encouraged to get the annual flu shot. Since I have asthma; I get the flu shot every year. :-)
Good morning everyone. :-)
TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join SETI Refugees
RE: Those with respiratory
Hi Doc!
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.