1) You're not at the mercy of the Ubuntu package maintainers to always have an up-to-date BOINC client.
Well, up-to-date is not always best, as I had major issues with the installation of 5.10.28 in Windows and had to revert back to 5.8.16, which took 3 installs to finally get it working...
Quote:
3) This also makes the project file directory easier to find.
I was quite perplexed when I tried to search for BOINC both in the GUI and from the command line and couldn't find anything... I guess it could've been my n00bishness, but I dunno. As I stated over at SETI, I dropped out of a class on Linux Administration this past semester due to the arrogance and ineptitude of the instructor. It has since come to pass that many others that stayed in the class got very frustrated as well. Of course, since the instructor is a Linux Zealot, he doesn't think he did anything wrong and thinks that it is all the students' fault...
Quote:
4) You don't have to spend time trying to figure out how to use Aptitude, Synaptic, or apt-get. (Well, eventually you will, if you become a Penguin convert. But, for now, there's no need for that.)
That's actually the simplest part of all of it. The frustrating part is that the people putting together the package were either uninformed or lazy and didn't just put together ALL of what was needed.
In average, that's about the performance increase you can expect from a native Linux system in conjunction with the current Einstein applications.
From what I heard on people using VM, the performance loss is surprisingly small. I reckon you should see the improvement that you're expecting.
I don't pay much attention anymore to the BOINC benchmarks, as they continue to fail to reflect a reasonably comparable score between Linux and Win32 despite many attempts to fix that.
To some extent you have to abandon Windows power user techniques and learn a new set. After a certain amount of pain and suffering the end result is quite rewarding.
I'm sorry, but I do not see this as a "new set". I see it as quite an "old set". I used to tinker and tweak CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. I got quite good at it, achieving 623K without QEMM, although with PC-DOS 7.0. This struggle reminds me of that. It was "fun" back then...back in 1994. 13 years later, all this command line stuff is reminding me of the DOS die-hards who would bellow that "the only REAL work is done from the command line"...
Quote:
I'm starting with the assumption that you have a Linux installation with a GUI (eg KDE) and a non-root user account you wish to use for BOINC.
Gnome, but I'm continuing to read...
Quote:
As I prefer to run BOINC as a daemon, I don't bother with the runmanager
I, however, will likely only be using this for a short period of time and will indeed want the manager coming up, but thank you for the option, in case I do decide to change things or in case someone else decides to attempt this as well.
I'm off to try this again. I want to be able to at least get the manager and client working tonight. I have 3 tasks for Cosmology that have deadlines of the 24th. Total working time for them will be 12-14 hours, so not immediate pressure, but soon. I have 3 tasks for Einstein that have until the 30th. Total time on those though will be 36-40 hours at current runtimes. I may run them alternating with a VM unit (no, I don't mean at the same time)...
I'm sorry, but I do not see this as a "new set". I see it as quite an "old set"....
Then we are not talking about the same "set".
Quote:
... all this command line stuff ...
All what command line stuff?? The "set" I was referring to is essentially point and click stuff only. I've recently converted three SSE2 machines that were running linux with older core clients and science apps to run the latest core client and the new power user app. I've also installed Linux on a 4th (previously Windows only) machine that is now dual booting and also added the latest core client and power user science app. In all four cases, the only time I needed to use a CLI was to issue the command:-
sh boinc_ubuntu_5.10.28_i686-pc-linux-gnu.sh
Everything else was point and click. It's actually quite easy to avoid the CLI most of the time and am certainly not suggesting you should be using it.
Quote:
I, however, will likely only be using this for a short period of time and will indeed want the manager coming up ...
I think I've failed to make myself clear. BOINC is always running until I choose to stop it with a single click. I use Boinc Manager quite frequently when needed to interface to the running BOINC. I just choose not to have Boinc Manager use any cpu cycles at all when it's not needed. To me, having the Boinc Manager icon sitting in the system tray is a waste. I can easily click the icon on the desktop when it's needed.
If you think about your "temporary usage" situation, what advantage do you get from using Boinc Manager to start BOINC rather than having BOINC start automatically on boot?
If you think about your "temporary usage" situation, what advantage do you get from using Boinc Manager to start BOINC rather than having BOINC start automatically on boot?
In case I'm doing something over in the host OS and I want to fire up the VM and come back to it when I'm ready... This is sort of a "po-tay-toe" vs. "po-tah-toe" quibble, likely due to my unfamiliarity with when the daemon starts. Would the daemon start after I login? The Windows service install will fire up and go even without logging in... I have my Intel host (attached only to SETI) set up this way (service installation).
As for the command line, I think I'm picking up on the way the Zealots I've been accustomed to dealing with operate and casting that trait towards many / all Linux users, which is honestly not fair. Every single person advocating Linux that I have met face-to-face has been obnoxious and arrogant. The instructor I had at school this past semester gave us our FIRST quiz, and it had as the final question, labeled as "Extra Credit": "Why does Microsoft suck so much?" I didn't answer it. When I got the quiz back, I was instructed to answer ALL questions, even if I didn't agree. Last time I checked, "Extra Credit" was optional... Not to him.
.. had as the final question, labeled as "Extra Credit": "Why does Microsoft suck so much?" .......
Whew!
I have been studying IT online the last few years, at no small expense, and encountered rather bizarre behaviour along similiar lines with some course 'leaders' . Personal opinions, even political biases, surprise questions and surprise topics not even mentioned in any synopsis/lecture/texbook/url. I finally gave up with one institution, due to being marked down according to criteria not even mentioned in the assignment/program specification. I objected and was told in no uncertain terms - 'bad luck'.
Well it was in a way .... for them. I objected politely to the 'supplier' of said educational services, and since then an entire slab of curriculum from said institution is now not available from that supplier. I don't claim to have been any more than perhaps the last straw though .... plus also I am in a key demographic of interest ( mid-aged, mid-career, mid-mortgage .... ) for their online study product.
Fortunately the textbooks were good and the original, but clearly dated, course notes I still enjoy.
Quite simple really ... me customer with money + me happy -> me buy services .... me not happy -> me not buy services ... a surprising lesson indeed for those that claimed to teach, for instance, internet commerce! :-)
[/OT]
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
As for the command line, I think I'm picking up on the way the Zealots I've been accustomed to dealing with operate and casting that trait towards many / all Linux users, which is honestly not fair. Every single person advocating Linux that I have met face-to-face has been obnoxious and arrogant. The instructor I had at school this past semester gave us our FIRST quiz, and it had as the final question, labeled as "Extra Credit": "Why does Microsoft suck so much?" I didn't answer it. When I got the quiz back, I was instructed to answer ALL questions, even if I didn't agree. Last time I checked, "Extra Credit" was optional... Not to him.
Oh surely, you could have come up with some smart-alecky answer to get back at him.
Seriously, instructors like this one give us Linux users a bad name. No all of us are like that. In my own case. . .
Yeah, I prefer Linux over Windows, mainly due to Windows' famed security and stability issues. (I also prefer MacOS X and OS/2 over Windows.) But, I have to be realistic. Some tasks that I have to perform require the use of Windows, since the software I need isn't always available for Linux. So, I do have to keep a Windows machine here in the house.
As for the command-line. . .
I realize that it's not everyone's cup-of-tea, and it does take a bit of getting used to. (Especially since Linux commands are radically different from DOS commands.) If you can make the GUI work for you, and prefer that instead, then there's nothing wrong with that.
Oh surely, you could have come up with some smart-alecky answer to get back at him.
It wasn't worth it. There were other things too, such as:
* His insisting that any and all Windows installations must, I repeat MUST, be formatted and reinstalled frequently so as to not get "bogged down". FUD! I haven't formatted this drive since the system was built in December of 2004. What *will* slow it down is fragmentation and all the stinking hooks that software from various sources wants to force you to load into memory at startup and then you start running low on stack / heap resources and / or physical memory.
* His insisting that all upgrade packages were poo and that they guaranteed doom and disaster. This was obviously built on the FUD of the format and reinstall thing. When I pointed out that I upgraded from Windows for Workgroups 3.11 to Windows 95a, to Windows 98, all without formatting and / or using the full install, he told me that I was "lucky". Keep in mind that this was all in front of everyone in the class. I then mentioned that I picked my own hardware and built the computer myself, he then said that I was "extremely lucky then". I was getting irritated already, but that sent me over the edge. I replied "...or skilled". He started to chuckle and almost said something, but then he realized he was about to denegrate me in front of the class, and so he moved on to his next topic (I mostly tuned him out from then on).
* Chiding me and implying that I was cheating when I asked the girl sitting next to me if there was more than one page to the quiz he just passed out. There were two pages the prior week and the guy at the end of the row only passed the first page. I literally had just gotten the page handed to me less than 15 seconds earlier. I even asked him and he barked back "NO TALKING". Then he had the NERVE to offer opinions on people's answers as they turned the quiz in, talking in a LOUD voice while others were still taking the quiz, and even starting to talk about what games he liked on the Wii.
I dropped the class too late to get my money back and with a low A. I just simply wasn't in the mood to deal with it. From what I heard, he took ages to grade things. Documentation was often incorrect due to it being old (from Edgy or RHEL 4 and not Feisty or RHEL 5). He even had a notice that he would not be in class the following week, but that was for the previous semester. He clearly was just throwing this stuff together as he went along.
Yes, I'm tempted to ask for my money back anyway. I'll see how some of the other people who stayed the whole semester felt and decide what to do...
RE: 1) You're not at the
)
Well, up-to-date is not always best, as I had major issues with the installation of 5.10.28 in Windows and had to revert back to 5.8.16, which took 3 installs to finally get it working...
I was quite perplexed when I tried to search for BOINC both in the GUI and from the command line and couldn't find anything... I guess it could've been my n00bishness, but I dunno. As I stated over at SETI, I dropped out of a class on Linux Administration this past semester due to the arrogance and ineptitude of the instructor. It has since come to pass that many others that stayed in the class got very frustrated as well. Of course, since the instructor is a Linux Zealot, he doesn't think he did anything wrong and thinks that it is all the students' fault...
That's actually the simplest part of all of it. The frustrating part is that the people putting together the package were either uninformed or lazy and didn't just put together ALL of what was needed.
@Brian : What I can give
)
@Brian :
What I can give you is a comparison from my only Win32 Host and 3 about identical Linux Hosts I have with the same CPU...
CPU on all four : Athlon X2 BE-2350
Win32
Linux #1
Linux #2
Linux #3
In average, that's about the performance increase you can expect from a native Linux system in conjunction with the current Einstein applications.
From what I heard on people using VM, the performance loss is surprisingly small. I reckon you should see the improvement that you're expecting.
I don't pay much attention anymore to the BOINC benchmarks, as they continue to fail to reflect a reasonably comparable score between Linux and Win32 despite many attempts to fix that.
RE: To some extent you
)
I'm sorry, but I do not see this as a "new set". I see it as quite an "old set". I used to tinker and tweak CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. I got quite good at it, achieving 623K without QEMM, although with PC-DOS 7.0. This struggle reminds me of that. It was "fun" back then...back in 1994. 13 years later, all this command line stuff is reminding me of the DOS die-hards who would bellow that "the only REAL work is done from the command line"...
Gnome, but I'm continuing to read...
I, however, will likely only be using this for a short period of time and will indeed want the manager coming up, but thank you for the option, in case I do decide to change things or in case someone else decides to attempt this as well.
I'm off to try this again. I want to be able to at least get the manager and client working tonight. I have 3 tasks for Cosmology that have deadlines of the 24th. Total working time for them will be 12-14 hours, so not immediate pressure, but soon. I have 3 tasks for Einstein that have until the 30th. Total time on those though will be 36-40 hours at current runtimes. I may run them alternating with a VM unit (no, I don't mean at the same time)...
Thanks Donald and
)
Thanks Donald and Gary:
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Starting BOINC client version 5.10.28 for i686-pc-linux-gnu
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||log flags: task, file_xfer, sched_ops
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Libraries: libcurl/7.17.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8g zlib/1.2.3.3
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Data directory: /home/student/BOINC
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Processor: 1 AuthenticAMD AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3700+ [Family 15 Model 39 Stepping 1]
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Processor features: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt lm 3dnowext 3dnow up pni lahf_lm ts fid vid ttp tm stc
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||OS: Linux: 2.6.22-14-generic
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Memory: 769.27 MB physical, 729.47 MB virtual
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Disk: 15.04 GB total, 10.78 GB free
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Local time is UTC -5 hours
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||No general preferences found - using BOINC defaults
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Preferences limit memory usage when active to 384.63MB
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Preferences limit memory usage when idle to 692.34MB
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Preferences limit disk usage to 7.52GB
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||This computer is not attached to any projects
Thu 20 Dec 2007 10:19:49 PM EST||Visit http://boinc.berkeley.edu for instructions
RE: I'm sorry, but I do
)
Then we are not talking about the same "set".
All what command line stuff?? The "set" I was referring to is essentially point and click stuff only. I've recently converted three SSE2 machines that were running linux with older core clients and science apps to run the latest core client and the new power user app. I've also installed Linux on a 4th (previously Windows only) machine that is now dual booting and also added the latest core client and power user science app. In all four cases, the only time I needed to use a CLI was to issue the command:-
sh boinc_ubuntu_5.10.28_i686-pc-linux-gnu.shEverything else was point and click. It's actually quite easy to avoid the CLI most of the time and am certainly not suggesting you should be using it.
I think I've failed to make myself clear. BOINC is always running until I choose to stop it with a single click. I use Boinc Manager quite frequently when needed to interface to the running BOINC. I just choose not to have Boinc Manager use any cpu cycles at all when it's not needed. To me, having the Boinc Manager icon sitting in the system tray is a waste. I can easily click the icon on the desktop when it's needed.
If you think about your "temporary usage" situation, what advantage do you get from using Boinc Manager to start BOINC rather than having BOINC start automatically on boot?
Cheers,
Gary.
RE: Thanks Donald and
)
Congratulations!!
Good luck with your various crusades :).
Cheers,
Gary.
RE: If you think about
)
In case I'm doing something over in the host OS and I want to fire up the VM and come back to it when I'm ready... This is sort of a "po-tay-toe" vs. "po-tah-toe" quibble, likely due to my unfamiliarity with when the daemon starts. Would the daemon start after I login? The Windows service install will fire up and go even without logging in... I have my Intel host (attached only to SETI) set up this way (service installation).
As for the command line, I think I'm picking up on the way the Zealots I've been accustomed to dealing with operate and casting that trait towards many / all Linux users, which is honestly not fair. Every single person advocating Linux that I have met face-to-face has been obnoxious and arrogant. The instructor I had at school this past semester gave us our FIRST quiz, and it had as the final question, labeled as "Extra Credit": "Why does Microsoft suck so much?" I didn't answer it. When I got the quiz back, I was instructed to answer ALL questions, even if I didn't agree. Last time I checked, "Extra Credit" was optional... Not to him.
[OT] RE: .. had as the
)
[OT]
Whew!
I have been studying IT online the last few years, at no small expense, and encountered rather bizarre behaviour along similiar lines with some course 'leaders' . Personal opinions, even political biases, surprise questions and surprise topics not even mentioned in any synopsis/lecture/texbook/url. I finally gave up with one institution, due to being marked down according to criteria not even mentioned in the assignment/program specification. I objected and was told in no uncertain terms - 'bad luck'.
Well it was in a way .... for them. I objected politely to the 'supplier' of said educational services, and since then an entire slab of curriculum from said institution is now not available from that supplier. I don't claim to have been any more than perhaps the last straw though .... plus also I am in a key demographic of interest ( mid-aged, mid-career, mid-mortgage .... ) for their online study product.
Fortunately the textbooks were good and the original, but clearly dated, course notes I still enjoy.
Quite simple really ... me customer with money + me happy -> me buy services .... me not happy -> me not buy services ... a surprising lesson indeed for those that claimed to teach, for instance, internet commerce! :-)
[/OT]
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: As for the command
)
Oh surely, you could have come up with some smart-alecky answer to get back at him.
Seriously, instructors like this one give us Linux users a bad name. No all of us are like that. In my own case. . .
Yeah, I prefer Linux over Windows, mainly due to Windows' famed security and stability issues. (I also prefer MacOS X and OS/2 over Windows.) But, I have to be realistic. Some tasks that I have to perform require the use of Windows, since the software I need isn't always available for Linux. So, I do have to keep a Windows machine here in the house.
As for the command-line. . .
I realize that it's not everyone's cup-of-tea, and it does take a bit of getting used to. (Especially since Linux commands are radically different from DOS commands.) If you can make the GUI work for you, and prefer that instead, then there's nothing wrong with that.
RE: Oh surely, you could
)
It wasn't worth it. There were other things too, such as:
* His insisting that any and all Windows installations must, I repeat MUST, be formatted and reinstalled frequently so as to not get "bogged down". FUD! I haven't formatted this drive since the system was built in December of 2004. What *will* slow it down is fragmentation and all the stinking hooks that software from various sources wants to force you to load into memory at startup and then you start running low on stack / heap resources and / or physical memory.
* His insisting that all upgrade packages were poo and that they guaranteed doom and disaster. This was obviously built on the FUD of the format and reinstall thing. When I pointed out that I upgraded from Windows for Workgroups 3.11 to Windows 95a, to Windows 98, all without formatting and / or using the full install, he told me that I was "lucky". Keep in mind that this was all in front of everyone in the class. I then mentioned that I picked my own hardware and built the computer myself, he then said that I was "extremely lucky then". I was getting irritated already, but that sent me over the edge. I replied "...or skilled". He started to chuckle and almost said something, but then he realized he was about to denegrate me in front of the class, and so he moved on to his next topic (I mostly tuned him out from then on).
* Chiding me and implying that I was cheating when I asked the girl sitting next to me if there was more than one page to the quiz he just passed out. There were two pages the prior week and the guy at the end of the row only passed the first page. I literally had just gotten the page handed to me less than 15 seconds earlier. I even asked him and he barked back "NO TALKING". Then he had the NERVE to offer opinions on people's answers as they turned the quiz in, talking in a LOUD voice while others were still taking the quiz, and even starting to talk about what games he liked on the Wii.
I dropped the class too late to get my money back and with a low A. I just simply wasn't in the mood to deal with it. From what I heard, he took ages to grade things. Documentation was often incorrect due to it being old (from Edgy or RHEL 4 and not Feisty or RHEL 5). He even had a notice that he would not be in class the following week, but that was for the previous semester. He clearly was just throwing this stuff together as he went along.
Yes, I'm tempted to ask for my money back anyway. I'll see how some of the other people who stayed the whole semester felt and decide what to do...