Old Geezers Club

Hev
Hev
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RE: Well, I reckon I've

Message 41391 in response to message 41388

Quote:

Well, I reckon I've read about 150+ scientific text books, cover to cover, in my life and about 30 of those are dedicated to computing. Not one of them has mentioned that:
a) The compiler had an inventor.
b) It was a woman.
c) Stated her name.
Maybe Ada Lovelace gets a mention, or Melinda because she's married to Bill Gates and that's it......
Cheers, Mike.


Women were hidden from history. My degree, many, many years ago was in fine art but according to art history I was taught then, there were no woman artists, or none worth mentioning. It was only afterwards when the women's movement began to re-appraise female artists of the last few hundred years that I knew that women artists had substantially contributed to art history. Same old story, but I'll let you Old Geezers get back to your club..

Es99
Es99
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RE: RE: I hadn't heard of

Message 41392 in response to message 41387

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Quote:
I hadn't heard of Admiral Hopper before, my daughter Es99 probably has, as her degree is in astrophysics (hope I got it right Es).

Cool! Way to go Es!
Ah, so has Es been keeping that light under a bushel huh?
[ of course, I'm still smarting ( or is it dumbing? ) - as I should be - for not having picked up that Es99 refers to Einsteinium ( atomic number 99 ). Doh! ]
Cheers, Mike.


I hadn't heard of Admiral Hopper before. (and yes my degree was in Astrophysics, but when it came time to hand out out the certificates my tutor said "why don't we just put Physics on it as no one knows what Astrophysics is and it'll make it easier for you to get a job"! I guess he already thought the odds were loaded against me as I had a 1 year old child by then!)

Physics is for gurls!

Terry
Terry
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E's, I spent over 25 years

E's, I spent over 25 years hireing programmers and analysts, in that time I found out that I was very gender bias. I might have run the most gender lopsided shop in the country. When I started out, you got most of your talent from the military. Because, very few colleges offered computer science degrees. I found that the military had a mindset that women made excellent keypunch operators. The thing they missed was that some of those women spent more time correcting the code than keypunching. By the time I had been there for five years I had almost a 3 to 5 gender gap and women were there for the long haul. There weren't all that many but they understood networking way back then. If I hired one I soon had 3 or 4 more apps on my desk. If I treated them with the respect that they earned they were the most effective and hardest working programmers I had. They had no problem taking instruction and if given flex time to babysit their husbands they couldn't be beat. Don't get me wrong these are generalities and I had many good male programmers as well. I seldom had problems finding someone to send to advanced training, it just seemed that they lined up 3 deep to have the chance. My only problem with Grace Hopper was that I was to dumb to get up to a level of intelligence that she could make herself come down to. I remember walking out of her class and looking like I had just run a marathon. The problem was that I hadn't learned a thing. The whole class just didn't get it. The lady was a researcher and one of the very best of all time but, she was not a teacher.

Terry
Terry
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RE: RE: My first

Message 41394 in response to message 41384

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My first programming class was in Quantico VA it was for COBOL and taught by a lady named Grace Hopper. The only thing I got was the understanding of a nanosecond, she used a piece of wire a little less than a foot long to represent the nanosecond and explained that a piece representing a second could strech nearly to the moon. I don't think anyone in the class understood more than 3 things that lady had to say in 6 weeks. She was a LtCmdr in the Navy and a prof at MIT. Her mind just worked on a different level than us poor dunb Marines. We were all asked to stay and retake the class in the next cycle from a guy with IBM.

Wow!! Admiral Hopper was one of the pioneers of computing. She invented the compiler, for example.


Es99
Es99
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RE: E's, I spent over 25

Message 41395 in response to message 41393

Quote:
E's, I spent over 25 years hireing programmers and analysts, in that time I found out that I was very gender bias. I might have run the most gender lopsided shop in the country. When I started out, you got most of your talent from the military. Because, very few colleges offered computer science degrees. I found that the military had a mindset that women made excellent keypunch operators. The thing they missed was that some of those women spent more time correcting the code than keypunching. By the time I had been there for five years I had almost a 3 to 5 gender gap and women were there for the long haul. There weren't all that many but they understood networking way back then. If I hired one I soon had 3 or 4 more apps on my desk. If I treated them with the respect that they earned they were the most effective and hardest working programmers I had. They had no problem taking instruction and if given flex time to babysit their husbands they couldn't be beat. Don't get me wrong these are generalities and I had many good male programmers as well. I seldom had problems finding someone to send to advanced training, it just seemed that they lined up 3 deep to have the chance. My only problem with Grace Hopper was that I was to dumb to get up to a level of intelligence that she could make herself come down to. I remember walking out of her class and looking like I had just run a marathon. The problem was that I hadn't learned a thing. The whole class just didn't get it. The lady was a researcher and one of the very best of all time but, she was not a teacher.


Thank you Terry for telling me about that...it makes sense to me. I wish all employers recognised the value of the work women can offer if given the flexibilty to work around the needs of their families...and it's interesting to hear of your fisrt hand experience of work with Grace Hopper. It's true of many intellectuals that they sometimes have trouble communicating their ideas on to other people. I think the same was said of Einstein.

Love your profile pic BTW..I'm going to borrow that if you don't mind. :-)

Physics is for gurls!

Bruce Allen
Bruce Allen
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RE: RE: Wow!! Admiral

Message 41396 in response to message 41385

Quote:
Quote:

Wow!! Admiral Hopper was one of the pioneers of computing. She invented the compiler, for example.


Thanks for introducing me to that site. If you read the biographies, most of those scientist women did research without any recognition, academic status and even salary! I think all jokes about women's brains are totally silly (I have a daughter with a degree in theoretical biophysics).
Tullio

Agreed. In fact my wife (Maria Alessandra Papa) is responsible for much of the core code and technique being used by the Einstein@Home application.

An interesting side note is that (like Marialessandra) the majority of the women in the LIGO Scientific Collaboration are from Italy. And the physics departments that I have visited in Italy seem to have equal numbers of male and female students. This is quite different from many other places, such as the USA and Germany, where there are very few women compared with men. Italy is clearly doing something right in early and secondary science education.

Bruce

Director, Einstein@Home

Bruce Allen
Bruce Allen
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RE: RE: Wow!! Admiral

Message 41397 in response to message 41388

Quote:
Quote:
Wow!! Admiral Hopper was one of the pioneers of computing. She invented the compiler, for example.

Well, I reckon I've read about 150+ scientific text books, cover to cover, in my life and about 30 of those are dedicated to computing. Not one of them has mentioned that:
a) The compiler had an inventor.
b) It was a woman.
c) Stated her name.
Maybe Ada Lovelace gets a mention, or Melinda because she's married to Bill Gates and that's it......
Cheers, Mike.

See this web page for some more details, and use Google (:-). http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/hopper.html.

Cheers,
Bruce

Director, Einstein@Home

tullio
tullio
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RE: An interesting side

Message 41398 in response to message 41396

Quote:

An interesting side note is that (like Marialessandra) the majority of the women in the LIGO Scientific Collaboration are from Italy. And the physics departments that I have visited in Italy seem to have equal numbers of male and female students. This is quite different from many other places, such as the USA and Germany, where there are very few women compared with men. Italy is clearly doing something right in early and secondary science education.

Bruce


My compliments to Maria Alessandra. As a matter of fact, most male students in Italy choose engineering if they are are interested in science. Women choose physics and mathematics in order to able to teach in secondary schools, since teaching jobs leave more time to mothers. But there are exceptions like Rita Levi Montalcini, a Nobel prize winner still doing research at 90 and astrophysicist Margherita Hack, still doing research and lecturing to the general public. I was tempted to apply for a scholarship at the Astronomical Observatory which she directed in Trieste, then reason prevailed and I obtained a position at Momdadori Scientific Editions in Milano. I think I was one of the firsts to give attention to the attempts of prof. Joseph Weber in a Momdadori Yearbook in 1970 and the thing was not applauded by Italian elementary particle physicists. I see they have changed opinion about GR.
Tullio

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: See this web page for

Message 41399 in response to message 41397

Quote:

See this web page for some more details, and use Google (:-). http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/hopper.html.

Cheers,
Bruce


Terrific! I particularly like:
- the first ever Computer Science Man-of-the-Year Award from the Data Processing Management Association in 1969. ( ouch, that must have hurt! :-) )
- A U.S. warship was also named in her honor. ( Cool! It's the USS Hopper, a guided missile destroyer, built in 1996. Navy warships, 'female' entities, traditionally launched by women via Champagne, actually named after a woman! But also see here :-) )

Quote:
I hadn't heard of Admiral Hopper before. (and yes my degree was in Astrophysics, but when it came time to hand out out the certificates my tutor said "why don't we just put Physics on it as no one knows what Astrophysics is and it'll make it easier for you to get a job"! I guess he already thought the odds were loaded against me as I had a 1 year old child by then!)


Actually 'astrophysics' is easier to grasp, being more specific than 'physics'. I did a physics degree ( Bachelor of Science ), 1978-80 at Melbourne - a pretty generic round of the usual topics, but I really revelled in the solid state stuff. I have ( dare I admit? ) a strange love of the maths associated with physics - it slots easily into my neurons, or something like that.... :-)
Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Es99
Es99
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RE: Actually 'astrophysics'

Message 41400 in response to message 41399

Quote:
Actually 'astrophysics' is easier to grasp, being more specific than 'physics'. I did a physics degree ( Bachelor of Science ), 1978-80 at Melbourne - a pretty generic round of the usual topics, but I really revelled in the solid state stuff. I have ( dare I admit? ) a strange love of the maths associated with physics - it slots easily into my neurons, or something like that.... :-)
Cheers, Mike.


Most of the content of my degree was your usual physics (Quantum Mechanics, Newtonian dynamics, particles physics, relativity, wave mechanics, thermodynamics, statistical physics and lots of maths...stuff like that) I did a solid state course which was very interesting..but I did the cosmology courses and star formation courses rather than the General Relativity and Quantum Field Theory stuff.. I'm sure I've forgotten most of it by now.

..as Tullio pointed out. Most women who study science end up as secondary teachers..which is exactly where I ended up!! Although that's not why I studied it. To be a good physicist takes a lot of single mindedness and dedication, it's hard to focus on that and have a family I think. I admire those women that do.

Physics is for gurls!

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